The queen of lickable treats: Meet Brandi Barker, creator of the Bark Pouch

School For The Dogs' trainers and clients love treats that dogs can lick straight from a container. One woman has cornered this market, and we're so glad. Her name is Brandi Barker. She started out training dog, but now is the fulltime force behind Bark Pouches, which are little squirt bottles filled with shelf-stable deliciousness. She and Annie talk about how she entered the world of dog training, how she came up with her product, and more.

or at barkpouch.com

Transcript

[Intro and music]

Annie

Hello folks. Thank you for being here. I am here with Brandi Barker, who has the world's best last name if you're into dogs [laughs].

And Brandi who is joining us from Chicago? I believe.

Brandi

I actually moved to Columbus, Ohio.

Annie

Oh, okay. From Columbus, Ohio. Why don't you tell us about your amazing product and then we can go from there.

Brandi

Okay. Sounds good. So it's called Bark Pouch, and it's dog treats in a pouch. Everything is human grade. And I try to keep the ingredients really minimal and I have multiple sizes. I have multiple --

Annie

Sorry to interrupt you, but explain it. Let's explain what a pouch is because it has different meanings.

Brandi

Okay. Okay. So you want me to start over then?

Annie

No, no, no, just go ahead.

Brandi

Okay. So it's it's dog treats in a pouch. So if you've ever seen the applesauce pouches, or the yogurt pouches that kids eat from, it's basically like a paste type consistency that you just hold down for your dog and squeeze a tiny bit. They lick straight from the pouch. So it's, I really design them for walking and training just to make that process easier for people.

Annie

What’s funny is I have a toddler. And she eats now from these kinds of pouches all the time, but I feel like my first exposure to this kind of pouch was through Bark Pouch. And then I was like, Oh, wait, they make these for children too. And actually some of the ones that they make for children, I think you can also use for dogs.

But yeah, so we've been carrying your product for several years now, and they are so genius because they're lickable. And as trainers we are very into treats that can be licked straight from the container for so many reasons. One reason that I think that people might not think about is when you're working with dogs all the time, as so many of us are, your hands get really gross

and your pockets get really gross. So having something that can simply be given straight from the container into a dog's mouth is great.

Love using it for especially outside, love using it for stuff like muzzle training. So many reasons. And recently we have been selling so many more Bark Pouches before because they used to have to be stored frozen, and then put in the refrigerator after use, but by some magic of production, they are now shelf stable as of a few months ago. And so we've been shipping them all over the country.

So let's back up a little bit. Your background is as a dog trainer. Am I right?

Brandi

Yes. Yes. I was a dog trainer in Chicago for 15 years.

Annie

So tell me how you became a dog trainer. Because as we know, there is no one path.

Brandi

So I had the world's worst behaved dog, but I adored him. And he was he was attacked by two dogs, and his high energy rambunctious ways just changed to dog reactivity.

Annie

Was he attacked in like a dog park situation?

Brandi

Two dogs pulled their owner towards him and she couldn't control them. And you know, it was noisy. He didn't get physically hurt, but it changed him and he became dog reactive. And I lived in downtown Chicago, and every trainer I called at the time, I mean, this was years ago. I called multiple trainers and they told me that they could help me, but they were going to put a shock collar on him. And I didn't know anything about dog training at the time. I just knew that I refused to put a shock collar on my dog.

So found the anti-cruelty society and started taking, you know, growl classes with them and it made me --

Annie

Yeah. That's interesting. Before I knew i anything about dog training too, I won't name names, but I was staying at someone's house and they were training their dog to have a shock collar on with an electric fence. And part of that is often dragging the dog through the electric fence until they, and I was just like, no. [laughs] It wasn't like some grand ethical idea that I had. And it wasn't like, I wasn't like, Oh, there must be a better way. I was just like, no, I'm just not gonna shock my dog. Like no judgment on you, but not doing that.

Anyway. You said you took growl classes. I've never heard of that. What is that?

Brandi

So they're basically just four dogs and in one room behind screens and, you know, in different corners, just learning how to walk out and walk back in and the turns and the redirection and the alternative behaviors. And I eventually graduated with him to real adult class, you know, regular adult classes.

Annie

I think that's like our, we have a class called sidewalk psychos. That's what it’s a little bit like.

Brandi

Okay. So yeah, so it was really just trying to get him acclimated around other dogs and controlled settings. And I just, I fell in love with what training did for the two of us. And I was in HR at the time. So I just, at the time, my experience was dog trainers didn't necessarily love people. They were really good with dogs.

Annie

[laughs] Isn't that a stereotype?

Brandi

And I really love both. So I thought, well, Hmm, maybe I can use my HR background and combine it with dog training. And I remember when I went to one of the trainers and declared my intent to become a dog trainer. She was so kind, but the look on her face was hysterical because it was just like, Whoa, you're handling -- Like you could just see, she was like, you're handling skills, you have a lot of work.

You know, and I ended up getting a master's degree in animal behavior too.

Annie

Oh, wow. Where did you go?

Brandi

DePaul university. I wanted to do everything right. And I spent years and years training dogs before I even considered opening a business because I wanted to make sure I understood all the intricacies of dog behavior, because there's just so much that you can do incorrectly and damage, you know, do more harm than good, even though your intentions are good.

Annie

So you opened up your own business in Chicago. Is that right?

Brandi

Yes. Yes.

Annie

And I'm, I'm assuming that this led you to think about dog treats that could be licked I'm guessing.

Brandi

Yes. Yes. I spent years, I was always on the hunt for the perfect treat because I worked with a lot of reactive dogs, because I just, you know, I mean a lot of dogs are dogs in urban environments. That's their only exercise is leash walks. And when you're working with a reactive dog and that's their only exercise, it can get a little tricky. So, I had a hard time watching my clients struggle with the timing of trying to dig treats out of their pockets. And then they're dropping treats on the ground, or their dogs are biting their fingers, or the dogs are looking, you know, refusing treats.

And they couldn't focus on what they were trying to focus on. and that was learning and trying to teach their dogs. I just wanted to make the treating process easy for them so they could focus on what they were trying to focus on, listening to me, their trainer, and paying attention to their dogs and paying attention to their surroundings and trying to teach at the same time. Which is all a lot for people to deal with without digging for hotdogs out of their pockets.

Annie

Did you just start experimenting in your kitchen?

Brandi

I did. Yeah. And some of the concoctions I came up with, you know, I mean, the nice thing was I had lots of willing taste testers because my client roster. And I tell you what some of the concoctions I came up with were [laughs]... I think the stinkiest grossest one that nobody would touch was sardines and pumpkin, just literally those two.

Annie

Did the dogs like it?

Brandi

Oh no. Oh no.

Annie

Well canned pumpkin without sugar in it is an easy treat to get in the supermarket to give to dogs. I don't know about pulverized sardines. I guess one could put them in a blender and then go that route.

Brandi

But the two of them combined were not a hit with anybody,, and I really had a hard time making them because the combination of the two in a food processor, it was just disgusting.

Annie

Okay. So that didn't work. What came next then?

Brandi

So what came next was the sardines and cream cheese, because I was using a lot of cheese and in my training and cream cheese is pretty yummy. And I wanted to add -- when I first launched, I had two business partners and you know, their family life just changed. So we parted ways a couple years ago, amicably of course. But so when I say we I'm talking of the two of them.

We really tried to keep things as healthy as possible. That has changed over the years. So, you know, I do have one recipe that is healthy, but the sardines and cream cheese was next. And you know, we tried really hard to make it palatable for people. So it's mostly cream cheese to kind of mask the smell of sardines.

And then the salmon ricotta came along the same time and that's mostly salmon to try to keep it as low fat and trying to keep it in the healthier category as possible. So I don't claim any of them are quote unquote healthy except for the Turkey and chicken.

Annie

Okay. Well, they might not be quote unquote healthy, but any treat should be making up a minority of whatever your dog is eating, right.

Brandi

Yes. But the salmon is low fat and the turkey is low fat. So I try to have kind of something for everyone. Because I recognize too that if people are treating a lot that they want to really keep, because sometimes they're really conscious of the calorie content and what they're feeding the dogs.

Annie

So, your first ones had to be refrigerated, right?

Brandi

They had to be frozen before use, which as you know, because you were ordering when I had to ship dry ice, it's, you know, it was cumbersome. And I can't even imagine trying to get dry ice right now with the COVID vaccines. Like, when I was shipping with dry ice, I would have to sometimes go to three different stores to get it because it was really hard to get. And I just didn't like what to it did to the environment and all that fun stuff.

So it took me about six years to make the product shelf stable the right way. But it finally happened last year and it was, I can't tell you how excited I am that I was finally able to do it.

Annie

What is difficult about making something shelf stable? I mean, I know nothing about those and I'm guessing you, you went in knowing very little too.

Brandi

Exactly. Yeah. I mean, because you're not baking the products, you know, I had to keep that kind of pace like consistency. Finding an ingredient to keep them fresh without adding something -- you know, I actually had a food scientist actually say to me that she had a great experimental chemical that would work in my product. And I was like, Oh my gosh, no, there's no way.

So just finding the right ingredient to make to lower the pH so that it's safe at room temperature for long periods of time once it's sealed off, was just really tricky. And then the second piece to it was keeping the taste palatable. A lot of the ingredients that I tested tasted like straight up vinegar. And no dog would touch that. I did lots of taste testing with it. My sister's dog who ate anything, like the dog would eat cardboard, I'm sure if you let him. He turned his nose up to a couple of the ingredients.

And then just making sure the process is 100% consistent, no matter what. So once I found the right food scientist, it all just kind of flowed really nicely, but the process of finding that food scientists took me at least a couple of years.

Annie

What kind of feedback do you get from clients?

Brandi

Right now I am ecstatic because I literally just get pictures of dogs eating pouches and people telling me that it's making their training that much easier and their dogs love the flavors. And it makes me so happy because that's the whole purpose of why I do what I do is I just want to make people's lives easier. And that's literally the emails I get right now. I get to see cute pictures of dogs eating my product, and it makes me so happy.

Annie

I can tell you when my dog was dying, sadly, it was one of the few things that he would eat and I would put his pills in little, little, what do you call it? I dunno, like droplets, that's not the right word. Little blubs? Of bark pouch stuff.

And so are you still training or is this now your full-time thing?

Brandi

I am not training. I gave up training probably about three years ago. I still do own my training business in Chicago and have a trainer that's seeing clients there, but this is the majority of what I'm spending my time on right now.

Annie

And you have three flavors. Is that right?

Brandi

I have five.

Annie

Oh five. Okay. What are they? Do we, do we carry five or do we carry three? I'm not sure.

Brandi

Do you carry the two that, I call them for lack of better terminology and PR people would probably cringe hearing me say this, but they're stinky. You carry the stinkier higher value ones. So there's peanut butter and blueberries, which I say is really good for the labs who like, who are like, Oh, I like everything, because I don't want to encourage dogs to bite the pouch. It's also good for puppies. And then I've got my two low fat blends, the salmon and ricotta, and the Turkey and chicken.

And then you carry the, the higher, the really high value ones that are good for dogs that will often turn their nose up to other treats. And that's the beef and liverwurst and the sardines and cream cheese.

Annie

Okay. Maybe we should be carrying all of them.

Brandi

I think you did at one point, but you know,, those are my two popular ones with trainers, just because they're the stinkiest.

Annie

Are there any similar products on the market that you recommend or don't recommend?

Brandi

You know, when I put together my business plan, I mean, the closest thing out there would be like the lean lix or what have you, but that's more like a deodorant type consistency.

Annie

Oh you know, when the LeanLix first came out, I was really excited about them, but I actually just ordered one recently from one of the places we buy from for our shop. Just, I bought one just to try it. And now I think they're made by the same company that makes like Himalayan chews, which we order all the time. And yeah, they're like hard deodorant, but now they come in a pack or a tube that also has a clicker attached to it. And you can put dog poop bags in the container too.

So I was like, okay well, that's kind of cool, like clicker, roll of poop bags, licking treat. They've got it all in one little handy thing now, got to try it. But the amount of product in it was negligible. And it was just like this sort of dried jelly stuff that broke up, it fell out and it was, it was really disappointing. So I don't know if they changed the formula or I think even, even way back when it, they kind of used to dry out pretty quickly.

There was also, what was it called? Lickety sticks. Do you remember Lickety Sticks? Those were like wet deodorant roll-on deodorant. And I don't think that what was in the product was super high quality stuff, but...

Brandi

I know, It was literally just, I'm glad you brought that one up. Cause that was another one that I was like, the ingredients, literally it was nothing but chemicals.

Annie

Yeah. But that was a cool product in that, in that it was something that was. Oh, hi baby. I'm on the phone. Sorry. That was a cool product. Cause the dog could just lick the end. Have you ever thought of making something more liquidy like that?

Brandi

No, because at this point in time, just trying to procure the packaging for my products is extensive work. Because everybody is starting to put things in pouches.

Annie

Is that true?

Brandi

Oh yeah. I have been testing a few new vendors products the last couple of weeks because I'm almost out, and it's just, the growing need for pouches is really tremendous. And mine have to go through a lot of temperature changes as part of the sterilization process. So not all of them can withstand that.

Annie

Oh my God, why is there a growing need of pouches? Like I have people stopped chewing things?

Brandi

I think a lot of companies are just looking at it as an opportunity, you know, like beauty products in pouches. And different types of portable food and pouches for, you know, people that camp and hike and whatnot. But yeah, it's a little difficult right now to procure those so.

Annie

Well then maybe the deodorant roll-on style liquidy stick would be easier to procure because I don't see people selling food in that kind of thing.

Brandi

What I've learned in the past year is, figuring out inventory and shipping and all of that was a little more work than I had planned. So my goal by the end of the year would be to introduce another 10 flavors. And then my goal in the next two years is I actually have a proprietary designed pouch that is specific to dogs. And it's patented and everything, and there's just some things that I think would be better suited for dogs, and my design versus what's actually on the market.

And I hope by then food science will have caught up with what I would desire because I would actually like for the pouch to be, if not biodegradable, then recyclable. Because, the science, it’s just not possible at this particular time to keep food safe in that type of package. But I hope [inaudible] roll mine out it will be. Because I really would like to make it super earth friendly.

Annie

Right, right. Neat. Okay. Well this has been really interesting. Thanks a lot for taking the time. Are they sold in other brick and mortar stores, or is online best right now?

Brandi

Online is best right now. I'm still trying to get my costs down. So I'm really not taking on any new wholesale customers at this point. So my website barkpouch.com is a great alternative to your website.

Annie

Awesome. And you're on Instagram too, right?

Brandi

I am. Yes.

Annie

Where can people find you there?

Brandi

@barkpouch on both Instagram and Facebook.

Annie

Thank you so much, Brandi.

Brandi

Thank you. I really enjoyed talking with you, Annie.

[music and outro]